Yeah. When you were younger, you used to draw all the time, like every single day, at least when you’re with me and you’ll wake up in the morning drawing. And to me, that was a beautiful thing for me to witness. What hip-hop did for me is that it gave me this outlet in so many different ways. ‘Cause when I was a kid I used to love dancing. I still do, but I used to love breakdancing. Do you remember that you drew a lot? 

Yeah. I remember like, I used to draw monster trucks.

So what was the shift between drawing to now? ‘Cause right now you pretty much make beats all the time, or music. Do you remember that shift of like, oh, let me just kind of focus on music now versus drawing? 

Yeah. I think at some point I was really like, I used to just draw like Coyote monster trucks. At that point I was like, I really, I wanna drive a monster truck when I get older. But then like, I started watching the videos and there was like a fire inside the monster truck. [laughter] And like they kept flipping over and landing on their back. So I was like, ‘I don’t think I wanna do that anymore.’ So at that point, I stopped. The main thing that I was drawing, I wasn’t into it as much anymore. So, and then I started making little songs on the iPad, but at some point I started experimenting with the old MPC 1000, I was like, oh, there’s more. And then I started just going harder I guess, and using, and making that more like, more of a thing than it was before.

I remember that you would make these beats on the iPad, and you would make them all the time. I always tell people that helped you with your rhythm and understanding patterns. And ‘Cause it would, everything would be quantized, right. It would never be offbeat. You would always put it on beat and it had the three tracks, the drums, the bass…

And the lead.

And the lead, the keyboard or whatever sound it can be. [laughter]

So, okay. I can get that like, “oh, driving monster trucks means I might be on fire or I’m gonna fall over and be in an accident. So let me just do this music thing.” I thought too because when you were younger I would have my drawing table in the living room and then when I started working out of the separate studio, the focus, the main thing was the music, was the turntables and stuff. 

We also used to go record shopping all the time. And you were really into The Jacksons... I mean, you put me on to the group Switch, you saw the record label having the name DeBarge , because you were into El DeBarge that time. You put two and two together in terms of like, okay, dad is making beats and he’s sampling from these songs. When we used to go record shopping, were you trying to find something to sample or were you just into finding music? 

Yeah, I think at that point, like, ‘Cause I didn't even use instruments at all at that point. So…

Well, you played the drums.

Yeah, but I didn't like to do that in the beats. So in order for me to actually like, have fun with the beats, I needed stuff to sample. So that was, it was like... Part of the reason I don’t go record shopping as much now, ‘Cause now I can just like to use the piano to make music. And I think I like to listen to the music, but then I can remember when you were trying to play it, I’d be like, nope, run it back. Like you were just trying to play it. And then I would be trying to sample it, so I kept pausing the music. So I think for the most part, I was trying to find a sample, but I also, I like listening to it, but I also like to, like I mainly like to make it my own.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. When a song you liked played, you would say, “oh yeah, I made that, I produced that. I did that.”

Yeah. That was my band.

“That was my band, I did that.” And so, but even then, it sounds like you were identifying songs you like and envisioning you actually making the song. “This song is great, so I’m going to embody myself being the one who made it.”

I remember at some point, like, I had watched the movie Frozen and I really love Frozen. I think I like Elsa a lot. So I was like... You know Let It Go? 

It’s a song? 

It’s like, “let it go, let it go!” I was like, “yeah, Elsa asked me to do the drums for this one.” That’s what I said.

[chuckle]

I’ve always thought of you more as a musician than a hip-hop producer. The best part is I see your joy in making music. You’re a musician that happens to use this beat machine to craft your sounds. “oh, because my dad made beats when he...”

That’s also where I started, basically. And I started just hearing you do that. And then, because I don’t know, at some point I have to start recording the whole track, but because that’s what I heard and that’s how I’ve, that’s how you taught me to do it, that’s just, I kind of make music that doesn't have to be hip-hop in a way that hip-hop would be made with sampling and tracks and sequences.

Well, that’s the thing, though. Nowadays, hip-hop is beyond, like you don’t have to sample in order for it to be sound hip-hop. hip-hop is about the drum, the rhythm, the pattern, it’s the thing that’s…

The texture of it. And you can have, that’s the greatest thing about hip-hop, is that you can sample anything and make it hip-hop, anything. The idea of hip-hop music, if you think of The Roots, they’re a band, they don’t sample, they play music. They play music that’s still hip-hop. It’s just how they arrange the music. You’re 12, what does hip-hop mean to you? Your perspective on it, what do you think about it at this point in your life? 

I feel like it’s just because I’ve been here and I’ve been listening to you play it, that’s like... It’s kind of the main music that I’ve heard for a long time. ‘Cause that’s like, most of... When we used to listen to vinyl more, my section was a little bit more updated, but now a lot of it is hip-hop. It’s just a lot of what I heard and a lot of what I experienced in this house, there’s a lot of stuff related to it. There’s the graffiti signs that I have in my bedroom, there’s the beat machines, there’s hip-hop records, there’s the old raps that you made that you had to cross out the bad words before you could show them to me.

[chuckle]

Well, yeah, but that’s the thing though is it’s, hip-hop is, it’s not just the music, it’s the culture. It’s the way you walk, it’s the way you dress. You know what I’m saying? Hip-hop has almost become pop now, you know what I’m saying? And when you see a commercial and have a boombox on there, that’s hip-hop. If you see a commercial and they have some graffiti on the background, that’s hip-hop, that’s really what it is. Hip-hop is this thing, whatever. But I don’t know. For you is that it was just a point in your life where when I see you, I do see hip-hop, but it’s your version of it. And as you get older, you're gonna have your own version of what hip-hop is. But it’s everywhere. That’s how it’s been around for 50 or so years now, at least named as such. What do you think hip-hop has taught you? Or if not, do you think hip-hop as a thing, as a person, or do you just think hip-hop is just like a consequent idea or an art form? 

I think it’s kind of, I guess you could say a culture ‘Cause it’s like a bunch of different things that could affect a lot of people, like what they do for work, how they draw or how... If they do graffiti, if they're doing that, that’s kind of hip-hop. The type of music they make. For me, hip-hop is where my... It’s part of where my music started, because that’s what I heard. And I think it’s also been a big part of my life. So I think it affects me in a lot of ways. If it didn't exist or it didn't become as well known, my life would be pretty different.

Mine too. I mean sometimes I get emotional about it, thinking about it, you know, just as a kid where I stuttered growing up and hip-hop, rapping became a way for me to kind of like work on it and talk in rhythm. The art I did, like I said, all of the things were like, it definitely meant a lot to me.

I guess to wrap this up, how is for you living in Oakland, where Oakland is such a rich culture for hip-hop, whether it comes from Hieroglyphics or MC Hammer, E-40.

MC Hammer is from Oakland?

Yeah. 

So all of that, like, you’re a part of that. Do you think of yourself as actually part of hip-hop? Do you think of yourself as a part of the legacy of hip-hop? 

I mean, I think I’m definitely something that hip-hop has affected and I would probably, like I said, I’d be different if hip-hop didn't happen. My music part of it came from hip-hop, so definitely part of that. And then also, because I live in Oakland, there’s a lot of things that I’ll get that maybe someone who lived in Berkeley would not. Like the whole Too Short song, Blow the Whistle, you do not hear that in Berkeley.

Yeah, probably. But, if you do, it’ll be like at somebody’s party. But it you may not necessarily hear it blaring down the street in Berkeley.

And I think there’s parts of hip-hop that are... You won’t hear one of those cars, like the low riders. That will not be something you see in Berkeley. Berkeley might play hip-hop, but they don’t really... It’s not part of their culture in the same way. So I think there’s things that I do because I’m from Oakland, and because I listen to hip-hop, that makes me part of hip-hop’s legacy even though at this point I’m not sure that I’ve done much contributing to hip-hop, or that’s been shared at least.

Well, I mean, you have. You existing and doing your own music is contributing to hip-hop. But more so you are just being you and expressing yourself through the music you make. 

Last question, If you were to talk to another kid your age about hip-hop, what would you, or what it means for you, how would you tell them in your words? What you know is very unique, most kids your age don’t know about Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five or even El DeBarge and Anita Baker, you know what I’m saying? How would you describe hip-hop to somebody your age?

And I think that like a lot of kids, they know what hip-hop music is, and I think now hip-hop might be less of a culture than it was at one point. Because you hear the music, but the people who are making the music, they don’t necessarily have to be as hip-hoppy as you would have to be... It was basically your whole life. But just because you make hip-hop now, it doesn't really necessarily mean that’s your life.

Yeah, that’s true.

So I think I kind of explain it, it’s easiest to say it’s just a type of music, but I think at one point it was also more like a way to live life and I guess a form of art too and just a group of things that come together to be that.

Yeah. I mean really, there’s the thing, “Rap is what you do, hip-hop is what you live.” KRS-One said that a long time ago. And there’s a thing where you have to, even now, like I said, when I was growing up it was a package. Now, if you could be a graffiti artist, and may not actually be into hip-hop, you are just into graffiti. You can be a DJ, but DJ is probably more influencing hip-hop because they have to understand the culture of it. Breakdancer, you could just be a dancer and not really be in the hip-hop scene at all, just in the dance scene. But I think you're right. There’s a way to where it’s kind of separate. It doesn't take much to be a rapper, honestly. It takes a lot to be a dancer, though. You gotta perform, you gotta practice.

And then you have, like if you're a DJ, you have to know how. And I think it’s harder to do. You can make a mixtape or you can have two turntables and switch from song to song, actually being able to do the scratching…

Work with the crowd, see the…

And the toasting. That’s a whole different thing.

Yeah. This is cool, dude. So this is hip-hop’s 50th anniversary, are there any kind of last words you would want to say or are you kinda complete?

I’m complete like a waffle with syrup and butter. [laughter]

Ok, alright.

Or chicken with feathers and a beak, and there’s eggs. Yeah, I’m done now.

That’s it.

Yeah. Beep beep beep beep.